Though in radically different ways, both Hamas and the United States are using Gaza’s civilians as human shields. There is nothing new about this phenomenon.
I can't even begin to describe the hatred I feel for Thomas Friedman as he sits sipping his latte in New York City and demands Israel lose the war so he can hold onto his delusion that there will be heaven on earth if only a couple more "deals" can be signed. I think I hate him more than I hate Biden Blinken and Schumer who at least have the excuse of caring about winning elections. Friedman has no such excuse.
Somehow, Freedman is still under the delusion that if Israel submits to all demands (land, sovereignty, etc…) placed on it, that its neighbors will not longer attack it. Someone needs to tell Freedman that Israel’s neighbors only want Israel, and will not stop until this is so. As a result, any and all of his proposals are a waist of paper and ink.
I totally agree with you on everything except "under the delusion that if Israel submits to all demands (land, sovereignty, etc.) placed on it, that its neighbors will no longer attack it." He knows that will happen and he doesn't care whether or not Israel's enemies will attack.
Even more sinister. Freedman is a traitor. The kind of Jew that in the early 1920’s preferred to view Judaism as a religion only, without a state. Thus opposing the formation of Israel. There were lots of them.
Friedman has been catastophically wrong on literally everything since 1991. And yet he persists without alteration. Of a single thing. Like the Bourbons, he learns nothing and forgets nothing.
Wisdom is a scarse commodity. The lack of it in the "West" is dangerous to our civilization. It is a result of deficient moral grounding and the courage to defend it. Civilization truly depends on a fidelity to our Judeo-Christian principles and today we are once again put to the test. Hopefully we will not be found wanting. Supporting Israel is a positive step in defending our culture.
Israel has to go into Rafah and should do so immediately. The US will make lots of noise as will EU and UN but will not actually do anything. There is no censure that will break Israel. We are so strong militarily and economically we can withstand a lot of deprivation before things get really bad (think of 1950). When we then turn to the north, the US will be forced to rearm us. We are not a banana republic. How I miss the likes of Ben-Gurion, Begin and Shamir.
It’s been an abusive relationship for 75 years, except for a brief period between 2016-2020 when we decided to have a relationship with another Man. Israel has to stand tall and stay strong HaShem is with us we have the greatest Shield of all - the Shield of HaShem!🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱Shabbat shalom.
How has the West come to turn it's back on decency, commitment, sanity, in favor of lies, political ambition and butchery? America may be my country, but it is less and less my home. Our clarity is gone.
I would contend that the U.S. is trying to err on the side of decency as the article states, but this war is being fought on “Hamas rules” not humanistic UN rules. This is a primal martyrs’ war of scorched earth righteousness and jihadist genocide. Israel knows this, but it is very difficult to fight on those terms in the spotlight of the 21st century.
“War is politics by other means.” Hamas and Hezbollah are funded by Iran who is using radical Sunnis to fight for Shia control of Jerusalem. This is a holy war between two theocracies - Iran and Israel. “Kill them all and let God/Allah choose his own” are the ruthless rules of this combat.
Secular United States has no skill in such maniacal religiosity and our “advice” to Israel often plays into the bloody hands of Hamas. The U.S. is very fragile currently and the raw forces being released can have serious domestic repercussions. Our “helping” is more of a hindrance to Israel and we would do better keeping our eye on the ball in Europe and Ukraine.
I agree. Makes good sense. My sense is that the relationship between Israel and the US following 10/7 would lead Israel quickly to conclude that it must developed its own weapons production so it no longer must rely upon others.
Iran is, as you say, a theocracy because it is ruled by Islamic law (Sharia). Israel, however, is not because Jewish law (Halacha) is not governmentally-imposed.
It is still a Jewish state originally tasked with providing a state for stateless Jews after WWII. It has outlived that mandate and now is a multicultural modern state but as long as the Star of David is on the flag and ultra-orthodox Jews are prominent in their government, it is perceived as a theocratic state. It should declare itself a secular state as most modern nations have with a distinct separation between religion and state. Until then, it is a "Jewish State" surrounded by hostile Muslim states. Halacha may not be governmentally imposed, but the government is almost completely Jewish and their laws reflect Jewish bias. The question is how does one get religion out of the Holy Land?
Ultra-orthodox Jews being prominent in its government is both a blessing and a curse..... a dichotomy at the heart of Israel's progress in the world, or lack thereof
I"m not mourning the Gazan civlian casualties......I leave that to the execrable jvp and if not now to don kippot and tallithim and say kadish for them and for hamas mixed among them. the ratio of civlians to fighters...means zero to the public...they read and hear over and over about Israel's alleged disproportionate and undiscerning response as it fights and the alleged famine that never stops despite the air drops, the trucks rolling in through more and more demanded openings. Famine, suffering, people eating nettles as the only food they can find like wild animals. So no massive demonstations for Ukraine, for Syria, for Yemen for Tibet, for occupied Cyprus, ...and when it mattered for Rwanda or for Cambodia under Khmer Rouge. For N. Koreans. The final paragraphs. YOu know who else said this on air several weeks ago before this...Joe Scarborough on MSNBC. That is what is different about this conflict. JEWS.
Israel only has one realistic choice: rout Hamas and get it done quickly. Every day that goes by Israel appears weaker to its enemies. Civilian loss of life should, of course, be mitigated, but it cannot be the first priority.
As to the referenced American threats (assuming there is any truth to them), I can't imagine that Israeli politicians would be so stupid as to leave the country vulnerable to a weapons embargo.
Hanoch, I wish I could agree, but Israeli politicians were so stupid to let their guard down on Oct 7. It would not be impossible for them to foolishly believe that Biden would never betray them the way he has. I hope that the IDF has enough weapons and bombs in hand to do what needs to be done without American aid, but I do not know, and they are acting like they are not totally comfortable with that they have in stock.
Dr, Oren, I think you've touched on something that isn't talked about or pointed out, enough. [The], "...non-uniformed terrorist...". Knowing the effort that the IDF goes to, to not engage non-combatants, it sickens me when pro-Hamas supporter talk of Palestinian genocide. Shabbat Shalom.
There is one major flaw in your analysis - the assumption of any rationality on the part of Sinwar and Hamas: they don't care if the war continues and if he and tens of thousands of additional Gazans are killed. He is willing to sacrifice everything to make Israel seem to the world a pariah on par with the Nazis. You can "defeat" Hamas militarily but Israel will lose the world. That is the sagacity of the U. S. position.
A beautifully written hommage about Israel’s moral dignity and the gravity of its choice. The question is - what’s next, and how to achieve it? And that’s not clear at all to anyone…
If the border with Egypt is "impermeable" then how about the tunnels and corrupt Egyptian officials that allow/facilitate 1) weapons entry into Gaza, and 2) no doubt soon, if not already, the flight of Sinwar and others to Egypt?
I said from the start the Biden administration could easily have forced Egypt to allow a tent city in Sinai or for those civilians who wanted to leave to transfer to other countries. Canada offered to take a bunch of them (no surprise - they'll fit right in) but instead Biden enabled Hamas to use the people as human shields and then blame Israel. I will never vote for another democrat well except Torres and Fetterman.
Biden is president of the U.S., not Egypt. Egypt, like the U.S. is unstable and knows the problems of allowing millions of radicalized Gazans into their country. You can be sure it was requested (not demanded) that Egypt host a tent city in the Sinai, but the answer was wisely a hard no! We need Egypt as an ally not another enemy in the area.
Canada has offered to accept some refugees, but the Trudeau government is already precarious because of previous floods of immigrants and the lack of housing impacting cost of living there. Canada is primed for a right-wing political shift and, no, they won't "fit right in."
Explain how Biden in supporting Israels' right to exist "enabled Hamas to use the people as human shields and blame Israel?" Biden has repeatedly called for moderation and warned of not repeating U.S. mistakes in Iraq and Afghanistan. Netanyahu has made his decisions involving the use of force often counter to the advice of the Biden administration.
I think you give Biden a lot more credit than he deserves. This is the most by-polar administration I have ever seen. Egypt didn't need to take people into Egypt just into the tent city in Sinai. Egypt will not survive without US aid (Israel would) because people won't be able to eat so US leverage is weighty. Do you know what a Canadian PM said during WWII about taking in Jews? "We'll take zero and that's too many". They want the Palestinians and judging by how dumbly corrupt they are it's a great fit but again they're not allowed to leave. The Ukrainians left. The Syrians left. Everybody leaves except the Gazans. Wonder why.
The Sinai is Egypt. Once the Gazans are in-country it is difficult to get them out. Of course Egypt will survive without the U.S. Saudi Arabia is always there to bail them out. "Palestinians" are not welcomed in Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, and Syria because they are toxic with radical Islam ideas borrowed from its roots in fascist Germany and Italy during WWII. Where ever they go, they bring trouble and it will take generations to de-radicalize them.
All this could make some sense if one only forgets about the elephant in the room: the continuing, bloody unlawful and barbarous occupation of the West Bank territories, conducted on purely racist bases by Israel (what if not racism can justify an occupation invoking the bible, a book written 2000 years ago by a bunch of ignorant bigots?).
The elephant in the room is the genocidal ambitions of Hamas. You falsely label Jews of all colors racists and deny any indigenous link of Jews to a land called Judea. The religious and racial ist fascists here that fit all your criticisms are the Islamists of Hamas you objectively support.
"For Hamas, Palestinian civilians as human shields are a get-away-with-terror free card" - a stand out reality. Thank you for articulating the situation so well
What about Netanyahu’s government? Equate the Hamas leadership with Netanyahu and his hard right settlers at any cost parties and talk about what needs to be done by the Palestinian people and the Israeli people to remove these crimes LS from power. The US will continue to be allies with Israel when Netanyahu’s is hopefully in jail for his crimes, and cooler heads are at the helm in Israel. If you really want to blame the US at least have the logical sense to compare Biden’s support of the Israeli and continuing pressure on them to reduce the destruction and increase humanitarian aid, to Iran’s support of Hamas and total lack of concern for the well being of the Palestinians, which Hamas purports to lead. The whole thing is a big mess, but the people on the ground are the ones that are going to solve this problem. You muddy the waters with this drumbeat to blame all the ills of the world on the Biden administration.
No one seems to think this could be a operation mongoose situation on October 7? Israel has the most sophisticated security systems and intelligence in the world, not claiming that as a clue to a potentially maniacal false flag but its worth considering. War that kills the children of the enemy is hell. I'm not backing palestine either, the riots here have a strange air about them. The antisemite thought police bill is sus, as well, put forth by the fake conservatives. Actual war on the ground in someone's homeland is hell. This all seems political and has Satan's name all over it.
Bureaucracies tend to be arrogant things. There were several warnings from the lowest level about unusual activity and preps for battle, but they were silenced by Management. But then they have constant reports like that, and they have to pick and choose which to respond to.
The problem is bigger; the basic concepts of the secure wall combined with Israel handing over full control of Gaza were fatally flawed. That was compounded when Israel agreed to give tens of thousands of in-Israel work permits to Gazans, who then provided detailed knowledge and maps of targets in Israel and the border wall. While the Gazans were planning their attack the wall appeared to work, which led to complacency.
Gaza got technical help from Iran, and was able to defeat the electronic components of the border wall, So when guards who were not killed in the initial attack attempted to call in an alarm, their communication link was already cut. It was a professionally planned operation.
You're telling me that you believe the reason for how Hamas was able to take down a sophisticated security system, but when you look at the massive repercussions does that mean that governments are taking advantage of a crisis? It is a fact that innocent civilians are dead and dying because of this war. My only point is that when your in a combat zone and you see dead bodies of children that aren't carrying weapons but carrying a stuffed animal or the level of anger necessary to survive in battle it is hell and those making the decisions to fight are not the ones doing the fighting. At one point is it not self-defense?
I didn’t say anything about government responses, nor do I have any inside knowledge of same. This seems to be veering into a emotionally charged discussion, and I don’t want to throw gas on it.
If you look, will find from many sources that Hamas seeks to maximize civilian casualties among their own people, it was one of the primary goals of their invasion. That’s incomprehensible within our worldview, but Hamas is not a copy of us, they have their own culture and their own motives..
I apologize for seemingly going emotionally charged. I dont feel emotional or married to either of these tribes. These sets of comments around this article seem to have a particular ideaology. I didnt intend for it to seem like I was trying to put gas on anything only trying to consider repurcussions or unintended consequences that to me are intentional when you consider who is in charge of the world. This is a spiritual war, one in which the devil is the agressor and the devil is the hero.
I can't even begin to describe the hatred I feel for Thomas Friedman as he sits sipping his latte in New York City and demands Israel lose the war so he can hold onto his delusion that there will be heaven on earth if only a couple more "deals" can be signed. I think I hate him more than I hate Biden Blinken and Schumer who at least have the excuse of caring about winning elections. Friedman has no such excuse.
Somehow, Freedman is still under the delusion that if Israel submits to all demands (land, sovereignty, etc…) placed on it, that its neighbors will not longer attack it. Someone needs to tell Freedman that Israel’s neighbors only want Israel, and will not stop until this is so. As a result, any and all of his proposals are a waist of paper and ink.
I totally agree with you on everything except "under the delusion that if Israel submits to all demands (land, sovereignty, etc.) placed on it, that its neighbors will no longer attack it." He knows that will happen and he doesn't care whether or not Israel's enemies will attack.
Even more sinister. Freedman is a traitor. The kind of Jew that in the early 1920’s preferred to view Judaism as a religion only, without a state. Thus opposing the formation of Israel. There were lots of them.
Friedman has been catastophically wrong on literally everything since 1991. And yet he persists without alteration. Of a single thing. Like the Bourbons, he learns nothing and forgets nothing.
Good to know.
Thank you.
I’ve not read his recent musings b/c I refuse to subscribe to NYT.
Well said
Thankfully Tommy does not live in Big Apple but rather that cesspool on the Potomac
Even worse
Great post Doug!
I think he's more of a mid-day Mimosa kind of guy.
Wisdom is a scarse commodity. The lack of it in the "West" is dangerous to our civilization. It is a result of deficient moral grounding and the courage to defend it. Civilization truly depends on a fidelity to our Judeo-Christian principles and today we are once again put to the test. Hopefully we will not be found wanting. Supporting Israel is a positive step in defending our culture.
Israel has to go into Rafah and should do so immediately. The US will make lots of noise as will EU and UN but will not actually do anything. There is no censure that will break Israel. We are so strong militarily and economically we can withstand a lot of deprivation before things get really bad (think of 1950). When we then turn to the north, the US will be forced to rearm us. We are not a banana republic. How I miss the likes of Ben-Gurion, Begin and Shamir.
Brilliant analysis. The White House tactics have ensured that negotiations fail. Israel gets the stick & Hamas gets the carrot - every time.
It’s been an abusive relationship for 75 years, except for a brief period between 2016-2020 when we decided to have a relationship with another Man. Israel has to stand tall and stay strong HaShem is with us we have the greatest Shield of all - the Shield of HaShem!🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱Shabbat shalom.
Yes, very well said.
Shabbat Shalom.
Way to go Brandon
It all makes my heart ache
How has the West come to turn it's back on decency, commitment, sanity, in favor of lies, political ambition and butchery? America may be my country, but it is less and less my home. Our clarity is gone.
I would contend that the U.S. is trying to err on the side of decency as the article states, but this war is being fought on “Hamas rules” not humanistic UN rules. This is a primal martyrs’ war of scorched earth righteousness and jihadist genocide. Israel knows this, but it is very difficult to fight on those terms in the spotlight of the 21st century.
“War is politics by other means.” Hamas and Hezbollah are funded by Iran who is using radical Sunnis to fight for Shia control of Jerusalem. This is a holy war between two theocracies - Iran and Israel. “Kill them all and let God/Allah choose his own” are the ruthless rules of this combat.
Secular United States has no skill in such maniacal religiosity and our “advice” to Israel often plays into the bloody hands of Hamas. The U.S. is very fragile currently and the raw forces being released can have serious domestic repercussions. Our “helping” is more of a hindrance to Israel and we would do better keeping our eye on the ball in Europe and Ukraine.
https://johnhardman.substack.com/p/campus-protest-intrigue
I agree. Makes good sense. My sense is that the relationship between Israel and the US following 10/7 would lead Israel quickly to conclude that it must developed its own weapons production so it no longer must rely upon others.
Iran is, as you say, a theocracy because it is ruled by Islamic law (Sharia). Israel, however, is not because Jewish law (Halacha) is not governmentally-imposed.
It is still a Jewish state originally tasked with providing a state for stateless Jews after WWII. It has outlived that mandate and now is a multicultural modern state but as long as the Star of David is on the flag and ultra-orthodox Jews are prominent in their government, it is perceived as a theocratic state. It should declare itself a secular state as most modern nations have with a distinct separation between religion and state. Until then, it is a "Jewish State" surrounded by hostile Muslim states. Halacha may not be governmentally imposed, but the government is almost completely Jewish and their laws reflect Jewish bias. The question is how does one get religion out of the Holy Land?
Ultra-orthodox Jews being prominent in its government is both a blessing and a curse..... a dichotomy at the heart of Israel's progress in the world, or lack thereof
My experience is zealotry is generally a curse no matter the flavor thereof...
I"m not mourning the Gazan civlian casualties......I leave that to the execrable jvp and if not now to don kippot and tallithim and say kadish for them and for hamas mixed among them. the ratio of civlians to fighters...means zero to the public...they read and hear over and over about Israel's alleged disproportionate and undiscerning response as it fights and the alleged famine that never stops despite the air drops, the trucks rolling in through more and more demanded openings. Famine, suffering, people eating nettles as the only food they can find like wild animals. So no massive demonstations for Ukraine, for Syria, for Yemen for Tibet, for occupied Cyprus, ...and when it mattered for Rwanda or for Cambodia under Khmer Rouge. For N. Koreans. The final paragraphs. YOu know who else said this on air several weeks ago before this...Joe Scarborough on MSNBC. That is what is different about this conflict. JEWS.
Israel only has one realistic choice: rout Hamas and get it done quickly. Every day that goes by Israel appears weaker to its enemies. Civilian loss of life should, of course, be mitigated, but it cannot be the first priority.
As to the referenced American threats (assuming there is any truth to them), I can't imagine that Israeli politicians would be so stupid as to leave the country vulnerable to a weapons embargo.
Hanoch, I wish I could agree, but Israeli politicians were so stupid to let their guard down on Oct 7. It would not be impossible for them to foolishly believe that Biden would never betray them the way he has. I hope that the IDF has enough weapons and bombs in hand to do what needs to be done without American aid, but I do not know, and they are acting like they are not totally comfortable with that they have in stock.
Dr, Oren, I think you've touched on something that isn't talked about or pointed out, enough. [The], "...non-uniformed terrorist...". Knowing the effort that the IDF goes to, to not engage non-combatants, it sickens me when pro-Hamas supporter talk of Palestinian genocide. Shabbat Shalom.
There is one major flaw in your analysis - the assumption of any rationality on the part of Sinwar and Hamas: they don't care if the war continues and if he and tens of thousands of additional Gazans are killed. He is willing to sacrifice everything to make Israel seem to the world a pariah on par with the Nazis. You can "defeat" Hamas militarily but Israel will lose the world. That is the sagacity of the U. S. position.
A beautifully written hommage about Israel’s moral dignity and the gravity of its choice. The question is - what’s next, and how to achieve it? And that’s not clear at all to anyone…
...and for ALL the global noise around the situation, there is surprisingly little being presented as viable options....
Great analysis Dr. Oren.
Thank you.
In some respects your analysis is similar to a recent article by Lee Smith in Tablet, entitled Saving Hamas.
If the border with Egypt is "impermeable" then how about the tunnels and corrupt Egyptian officials that allow/facilitate 1) weapons entry into Gaza, and 2) no doubt soon, if not already, the flight of Sinwar and others to Egypt?
I said from the start the Biden administration could easily have forced Egypt to allow a tent city in Sinai or for those civilians who wanted to leave to transfer to other countries. Canada offered to take a bunch of them (no surprise - they'll fit right in) but instead Biden enabled Hamas to use the people as human shields and then blame Israel. I will never vote for another democrat well except Torres and Fetterman.
Biden is president of the U.S., not Egypt. Egypt, like the U.S. is unstable and knows the problems of allowing millions of radicalized Gazans into their country. You can be sure it was requested (not demanded) that Egypt host a tent city in the Sinai, but the answer was wisely a hard no! We need Egypt as an ally not another enemy in the area.
Canada has offered to accept some refugees, but the Trudeau government is already precarious because of previous floods of immigrants and the lack of housing impacting cost of living there. Canada is primed for a right-wing political shift and, no, they won't "fit right in."
Explain how Biden in supporting Israels' right to exist "enabled Hamas to use the people as human shields and blame Israel?" Biden has repeatedly called for moderation and warned of not repeating U.S. mistakes in Iraq and Afghanistan. Netanyahu has made his decisions involving the use of force often counter to the advice of the Biden administration.
I think you give Biden a lot more credit than he deserves. This is the most by-polar administration I have ever seen. Egypt didn't need to take people into Egypt just into the tent city in Sinai. Egypt will not survive without US aid (Israel would) because people won't be able to eat so US leverage is weighty. Do you know what a Canadian PM said during WWII about taking in Jews? "We'll take zero and that's too many". They want the Palestinians and judging by how dumbly corrupt they are it's a great fit but again they're not allowed to leave. The Ukrainians left. The Syrians left. Everybody leaves except the Gazans. Wonder why.
The Sinai is Egypt. Once the Gazans are in-country it is difficult to get them out. Of course Egypt will survive without the U.S. Saudi Arabia is always there to bail them out. "Palestinians" are not welcomed in Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, and Syria because they are toxic with radical Islam ideas borrowed from its roots in fascist Germany and Italy during WWII. Where ever they go, they bring trouble and it will take generations to de-radicalize them.
https://johnhardman.substack.com/p/hitlers-grand-mufti
Biden may not be Pres of Egypt, but he seems to think he is also PA and commander in chief of Israel.
All this could make some sense if one only forgets about the elephant in the room: the continuing, bloody unlawful and barbarous occupation of the West Bank territories, conducted on purely racist bases by Israel (what if not racism can justify an occupation invoking the bible, a book written 2000 years ago by a bunch of ignorant bigots?).
The elephant in the room is the genocidal ambitions of Hamas. You falsely label Jews of all colors racists and deny any indigenous link of Jews to a land called Judea. The religious and racial ist fascists here that fit all your criticisms are the Islamists of Hamas you objectively support.
"For Hamas, Palestinian civilians as human shields are a get-away-with-terror free card" - a stand out reality. Thank you for articulating the situation so well
What about Netanyahu’s government? Equate the Hamas leadership with Netanyahu and his hard right settlers at any cost parties and talk about what needs to be done by the Palestinian people and the Israeli people to remove these crimes LS from power. The US will continue to be allies with Israel when Netanyahu’s is hopefully in jail for his crimes, and cooler heads are at the helm in Israel. If you really want to blame the US at least have the logical sense to compare Biden’s support of the Israeli and continuing pressure on them to reduce the destruction and increase humanitarian aid, to Iran’s support of Hamas and total lack of concern for the well being of the Palestinians, which Hamas purports to lead. The whole thing is a big mess, but the people on the ground are the ones that are going to solve this problem. You muddy the waters with this drumbeat to blame all the ills of the world on the Biden administration.
No one seems to think this could be a operation mongoose situation on October 7? Israel has the most sophisticated security systems and intelligence in the world, not claiming that as a clue to a potentially maniacal false flag but its worth considering. War that kills the children of the enemy is hell. I'm not backing palestine either, the riots here have a strange air about them. The antisemite thought police bill is sus, as well, put forth by the fake conservatives. Actual war on the ground in someone's homeland is hell. This all seems political and has Satan's name all over it.
Bureaucracies tend to be arrogant things. There were several warnings from the lowest level about unusual activity and preps for battle, but they were silenced by Management. But then they have constant reports like that, and they have to pick and choose which to respond to.
The problem is bigger; the basic concepts of the secure wall combined with Israel handing over full control of Gaza were fatally flawed. That was compounded when Israel agreed to give tens of thousands of in-Israel work permits to Gazans, who then provided detailed knowledge and maps of targets in Israel and the border wall. While the Gazans were planning their attack the wall appeared to work, which led to complacency.
Gaza got technical help from Iran, and was able to defeat the electronic components of the border wall, So when guards who were not killed in the initial attack attempted to call in an alarm, their communication link was already cut. It was a professionally planned operation.
You're telling me that you believe the reason for how Hamas was able to take down a sophisticated security system, but when you look at the massive repercussions does that mean that governments are taking advantage of a crisis? It is a fact that innocent civilians are dead and dying because of this war. My only point is that when your in a combat zone and you see dead bodies of children that aren't carrying weapons but carrying a stuffed animal or the level of anger necessary to survive in battle it is hell and those making the decisions to fight are not the ones doing the fighting. At one point is it not self-defense?
I didn’t say anything about government responses, nor do I have any inside knowledge of same. This seems to be veering into a emotionally charged discussion, and I don’t want to throw gas on it.
If you look, will find from many sources that Hamas seeks to maximize civilian casualties among their own people, it was one of the primary goals of their invasion. That’s incomprehensible within our worldview, but Hamas is not a copy of us, they have their own culture and their own motives..
I apologize for seemingly going emotionally charged. I dont feel emotional or married to either of these tribes. These sets of comments around this article seem to have a particular ideaology. I didnt intend for it to seem like I was trying to put gas on anything only trying to consider repurcussions or unintended consequences that to me are intentional when you consider who is in charge of the world. This is a spiritual war, one in which the devil is the agressor and the devil is the hero.
I find things this large hard to understand, for whatever that's worth.